[html4all] a11y issues with HTML5 draft and W3C default stylesheets

[Gregory J. Rosmaita]

in an auto-generated post to the HTML WG's emailing list, archived at:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0043.html

i addressed some general accessibility issues with the HTML5 editors' 
draft and W3C default stylesheets in general...

in an offlist response, phillip taylor asked:

Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:26:46 +0000   
From: "Philip Taylor (Webmaster)" <P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk>         
To: oedipus at hicom.net
Subj: Re: ISSUE-26: accessibility/usability of HTML5 and W3C default 
stylesheets [W3C publications] 

Gregory, why does this need to be done ? 

> In the editor's draft of HTML5, there are 6 CSS style 
> rules which need to be translated from hexadecimal 
> to named colors 

I understand 

> 3. the inability of screen readers and other AT to detect background 
and foreground colors using hexadecimal or RGB values as a bug with 
several developers of open source assistive technologies (such as Orca 
and NVDA) and such functionality has been submitted as a "feature 
request" to major commercial AT developers; currently the capacity to 
detect font color changes to effect a vocal characteristics change is not 
supported by any of the screen reader developers or implementors -- 
however, the lead of the Orca project, Willie Walker, agreed that the 
capacity to detect changes defined with hex or rgb notation is an 
eminently implementable feature for a screen reader, and it 
> has been entered into the Orca bug queue 

but what effect does it have on the end user ? 

** Phil. 
 
to which i responded (again offlist)

Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:41:06 +0000   
From: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus at hicom.net>      
To: "Philip Taylor (Webmaster)" <P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk>
Subject: Re: ISSUE-26: accessibility/usability of HTML5 and W3C default 
stylesheets [W3C publications]  All headers  
   
aloha, phil! 

the problem is that one cannot set numerical values to set aural or 
tactile rules which respond to the hexadecimal or rgb values of a 
background and foreground color combination -- using color alone, 
even through the agency of stylesheets -- clearly violates the 
WCAG proscription against using color alone to convey meaning; simply 
because the color-coding is achieved via stylesheets, does not make 
the color-coding any more accessible than if it had been defined using 
the deprecated FONT element -- what is missing is the ability of ATs to 
allow the user to assign specific values for foreground and background 
color changes which signify that a string of text is an example, an 
issue, a big issue, inserted text, deleted text, comments/asides, etc. 

that is why i suggest a two-pronged approach: 

1. use declarative markup attached to a specific style rule to indicate 
status of the text so marked 

2. working with AT vendors to support recognition of numerical color 
values 

these issues are larger than just the HTML5 Editor's Draft's stylesheet; 
most DIFF-marked versions of W3C documents use color alone to indicate 
changes between drafts -- if the color changes aren't perceptible to a 
screen reader, then the state/status of the text so marked cannot be 
communicated to the aural or tactile or monochrome monitor or color-blind 
user... 

simply using stylesheets to achieve seperation of presentation from 
content isn't sufficient -- the styling has no meaning to a non-visual 
user or that user's AT 

does that answer your question?  if not, let me know, as i will probably 
be fielding quite a few similar inquiries -- thanks, gregory. 

in reply (again, offlist) philip stated:
 
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:44:06 +0000   
From: "Philip Taylor (Webmaster)" <P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk>         
To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus at hicom.net>
Subj: Re: ISSUE-26: accessibility/usability of HTML5 and W3C default 
stylesheets [W3C publications] 

OK, that part I understood (I think !); what I did not 
understand is what is gained by asking the editors 
to eschew hex or rgb notation in favour of named 
colours ... 

** Phil.  

to which i replied:

Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:52:44 +0000   
From: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus at hicom.net>      
To: "Philip Taylor (Webmaster)" <P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk>
Subj: Re: ISSUE-26: accessibility/usability of HTML5 and W3C default 
stylesheets [W3C publications] 

aloha, phil! 

that's why: 

a) i didn't mark the big issue versus issue action as closed, as 
i realize that there is going to be some-to-a-lot of negotiating 
over the ramifications of my findings 

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/24 

b) i don't want to limit anyone's palette, but since this is an 
accessibility issue, and since trying to discern pseudo-semantics 
expressed via style rules is a documented problem with today's 
technologies, the W3C has an obligation, under WCAG, to make a 
reasonable accomodation -- i am more than willing to meet anyone 
half-way and not object to the use of numerical color values AS 
LONG AS there is actual markup in the document source that serves 
the same purpose -- semantic markers of a section of content with 
special meaning or status... 

c) i'm not a fan of the named colors chosen as named colors, but i 
don't have any control over that particular issue, which is why i have 
begun working on a proposed stylesheet revision via the html4all wiki: 

https://html4all.org/wiki/index.php/DraftStyleSheetIssues 

d) should we be having this discussion on html4all? 

gregory. 

 
philip replied to my question as to whether we ought to be having this 
discussion on html4all, thus:

Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:00:35 +0000   
From: "Philip Taylor (Webmaster)" <P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk>         
To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus at hicom.net>, Laura Carlson 
<laura.lee.car .....
Subj: Re: ISSUE-26: accessibility/usability of HTML5 and W3C default 
stylesheets [W3C publications] 

Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote: 

> d) should we be having this discussion on html4all? 

I had begun to fear that, following Laura's sad departure, 
all activity on HTML4All had ceased :-(  I know that that 
is the last thing that Laura would have wanted, but there 
has been no evidence of any activity whatsoever following 
her announcement. 

Yes, let's set a good example and resume this discussion 
in open forum :-) 

Laura cc'd, so she can see that we have not abandoned our task. 

** Phil. 
 
so, now that you know the background, anyone who has comments,
observations, criticisms, corrections, etc. please post them to the 
list so that the widest possible spectrum of opinions can be brought
to bear on this discussion,

thanks, gregory.

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             Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus at hicom.net
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