[html4all] Copy of e-mail to Karl Dubost

[Vlad Alexander (XStandard)]

I'd like to respond to this statement - sorry, not sure who wrote it:

>If consumers are not satisfied, the products die.
This is only true for efficient markets. The software industry (including the Web) is not an efficient market.

Regards,
-Vlad
http://xstandard.com

-------- Original Message --------
From: Charles McCathieNevile
Date: 2007-09-17 6:45 PM
> In Karl's defense...
> 
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:38:53 +0200, Philip TAYLOR  
> <Philip-and-LeKhanh at royal-tunbridge-wells.org> wrote:
> 
>> And Karl's response :
>>
>>> Philip Taylor (Webmaster) (17 sept. 2007 - 12:26) :
>>>> Right, so where are the "different parties" in your phrase
>>>> "the needs of implementers" ?  The only parties I can find
>>>> there are implementors -- what about the needs of
>>>>
>>>>     o consumers
>>> Are everyone else, Usually, products exist only because there are  
>>> consumers. If consumers are not satisfied, the products die.
> 
> This is pretty much true. And one of the things that W3C does, and that  
> Karl in particular does, is ensure that consumers get a real voice before  
> the products are finalised and offered on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.
> 
> Opera is an implementor. Inside the company we have consumers, and as  
> customers we have millions more of them. Our goal is to provide what they  
> want and need, and if we don't do that we won't have the millions of users  
> we do today.
> 
>>>>     o those with special accessibility needs
>>> These are consumers too. The ethics goal of caring for them is a noble  
>>> goal, but is not very effective (unfortunately) in our society. The  
>>> goal is more that there is really a need to make business with these  
>>> users.
> 
> Again, this is true. Accessibility is a collection of the diverse needs of  
> users - usability is also important, users understanding security and not  
> getting led to do things that harm them is important (and many users don't  
> even realise it until they have been burned by something, when it is  
> generally too late), compatibility with actual websites is important. It  
> is great to have a browser that is accessible, but if it is incompatible  
> with your bank, it still doesn't actually solve your real world problem of  
> wanting to manage your money on your own.
> 
> I have worked hard in Opera on accessibility, as have various developers,  
> and our new alpha with some screen reader compatibility is a reflection of  
> that. We have work still to do, and we are doing it. We have millions of  
> people screaming for lots of other features too, and if we run out of  
> users we die - so everyone ends up with nothing. We would love to do  
> everything at once, but we can't. A modern browser is a very complex piece  
> of software, and is critical to many different people in many different  
> ways.
> 
> We care a lot about HTML and how it develops. I think the HTML WG, like  
> the WHAT WG, the XHTML WG, and every other group I have come across  
> working in this space, has some serious flaws. If I had a solution for  
> them all, I would have offered it. As far as I am concerned, the W3C  
> process offers the best option available to ensure a decent outcome, and I  
> am very glad that the HTML WG exists. I would love it to work better,  
> faster, take more input and be easier to follow, and while I think there  
> are definitely things that could be improved and things that should be  
> improved, I am backing it over the alternatives. Because I believe that it  
> offers more of what you are asking for in your mail, and because I know  
> and trust people like Karl to ensure that it delivers as much of that as  
> possible.
> 
> He's on your side, but he does the difficult job of being a W3C staff  
> contact. I have done that job (but never in as difficult a group as HTML  
> WG), and I have an immense respect for the people who do it. I also know  
> Karl, and trust him personally. I think this exchange has been more about  
> misunderstanding between people who have the same goals and ideas than  
> anything else, which makes it depressing to see it held up as though it  
> was something that should upset people.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chaals
>