[html4all] Figure ideas (was: Article by Catherine: Feedback on accessibility concerns in HTML5)

[Robert Burns]

Hi Catherine,

On Sep 20, 2007, at 9:49 PM, zara wrote:

> You know, some of this is admittedly over my head but I guess I  
> should add a bit more detail as to the discussion that involved the  
> proposed "figure" element.
>
> We were originally talking about the longdesc attribute and  
> specifically instances where images such as graphs were concerned  
> (as one user felt that longdesc was particularly useful for those  
> kinds of images). I provided an example of a (French) Web site that  
> actually provided longdesc for most of these types of images  
> present on the page (also providing a d-link, most probably for UAs  
> not supporting longdesc ?) :
>
> http://www.3sip.fr/main.php?page=.%2Fstat
>
> And the discussion then turned to how the "figure" element might  
> support this, where someone provided this type of rough example of  
> how the "figure" element could transmit the relevant information :
>
>
> <figure>
> 	<img src="camembert.jpg" alt="Répartition des fournisseurs de  
> tartes Tatins">
> 	<legend>La tarte Tatin, principaux fournisseurs</legend>
> 	<table>
> 		<tr>
> 		<th scope="col">Compagnie</th>
> 		<th scope="col">Part de marché</th>
> 		</tr>
> 		<tr>
> 		<td>Boudreau</td>
> 		<td>40%</td>
> (etc)
> 		</tr>
> 	</table>
> </figure>
>
>
> And that is basically as far as we got.
>
> While I find this idea very intriguing, I still wonder about some  
> things, notably, about the fact that a lot of Web content is not  
> necessarily built by professionals or by people using sophisticated  
> authoring tools or who know everything an authoring tool could  
> (eventually) do for them but who would be providing this type of  
> information (and whether we like it or not, that is a given in a  
> lot of cases). So, basically, how do we reconcile with the fact  
> that it is hard enough getting people to do longdesc properly and  
> expect them to do something like this. How do we make it easy for  
> them ?
>
> But then, maybe I wonder too much ;)
>
> Anyway, I hope this adds a bit more info as to what was being  
> discussed or speculated upon.

I don't really see how that solution using the figure element solves  
any of the issues surrounding img and longdesc. The same thing could  
be accomplished without figure by simply including an img and a table  
inside a div with a caption on the table too (or many other ways).  
However, all of these ways do not provide an alternate as fallback  
for when the user cannot, for whatever reason, consume the contents  
of the image. I think those who point to figure as solving this  
problem simply do not understand the issues.

The figure element does raise the issue of embedded content that is  
illustrative of the prose already included in a document. When an  
image is included in a figure element with a caption, that  
relationship is explicit. When an image is embedded inline within a  
paragraph, the illustrative relationship is less clear. I would also  
point out that the use of figure in that example is not a conforming  
use of the figure element as currently defined in the draft.

Take care,
Rob